HiFi & Professional Audio Forum  

High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Hi-Fi komponente, iskustva, pitanja, saveti, komentari..
User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 07 Jun 2012, 22:36

Gerner,

There is something that I would like to ask you ... Danish HiFi industry is very strong. Probably one of the strongest in Europe. If you are looking for a powerful amp wouldn't be somehow logical to take a look into Gryphon offerings in that area. They have some monster amps that also sound really good. I never heard Gryphon sounding bad ... and I had a lot of opportunities to hear that brand in last 6-7 years. And I guess you know these guys ... why then all these other brands when having Gryphon practically "on the door step" ?

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 08 Jun 2012, 08:03

Gryphon Diablo is an amp to dream of. But if you have some doubts about it (I agree that Gryphons in general do have a kind of "dramatic" sound - which is in my opinion nothing negative) you can go with Gryphon power amp (what about Mephisto Solo :D :D :D ) and then keep the possibility to tweak the sound by using different preamp. Something like Audio Research Reference would probably hit the spot. New two box Krell preamp is also a great choice, especially if you want to reduce the "drama" and push it a bit in direction of "lean correctness".

Class D is ok and I also agree that they are improving nearly on the year basis. But here we are talking about big boys. Real big amps that also sound very, very good. This is still a league where class D cannot compete (although Germans are praying very much Ayre mono's I couldn't get the feeling that they are really that good). So if the cach is no issue - pay a visit to your old pals ... :D

User avatar

kamen
redovni korisnik
redovni korisnik
Posts: 271
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 23:20

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by kamen » 11 Jun 2012, 14:24

Hi Gerner,

Reviews are always subjective and should be taken with some reserve.
Thiel speakers, especially this model are technically very advanced and their technical solutions are more my taste.
I wait with great impatience to hear them in a system, (especially in a familiar one) and see how many of my expectations will be attained or not.
Otherwise I love my speakers detailed and neutral.
As I mentioned earlier You need to "touch" the equipment to know.
I hope that will be the case sooner then later, because this subject "D- Class' got me to.

Pozz

User avatar

PrekoBare
srebrni korisnik
srebrni korisnik
Posts: 538
Joined: 03 Dec 2008, 20:39

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by PrekoBare » 11 Jun 2012, 15:41

Gerner wrote:... Most magazines, and particular net based publications are in the pocket of the manufacturers.
Gerner, hope you don't mind a digression here. I agree about net based publications, but in my view, with magazines it is the other way around.

Magazines such as Shillphile and similar operate like "protection" racket.

They will ignore certain brand or product if manufacturer is not buying advertising space in advance - usually in blocks of 12 months or more.
Reviews appear only when "co-operation" is long established. Paid by advertising in advance, with track record.

If manufacturer who already established "co-operation" is not co-operative in buying advertising space, maagazine either refuse review or ignore product among recommended components, while puting 500 other products into Class A, B, C, Z list. Thus, magazine can destroy small manufacturer without writing anything derogatory, so manufacturer can do nothing about it.

That's how some very mediocre products ended being household names for hi end while others linger or fail on the market.

Also, if manufacturer choose to use internet publications first, or use direct sale to customers distribution model, their money can not buy advertising space in
Shillphile or similar magazine, let alone get review.

The only exception of this rule I am aware of is OPPO. They simply built better mousetrap.

Magazines are great for the pics. Only, reading hi-fi magazines without knowing what's going on in the backroom, is like reading Playboy without knowing how Photoshop works :-)
"Najbolje je neprijatelj dobrog"

Volter

User avatar

kamen
redovni korisnik
redovni korisnik
Posts: 271
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 23:20

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by kamen » 11 Jun 2012, 16:25

PrekoBare,

Lepo receno potpuno se slazem.

Pozz

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 11 Jun 2012, 21:06

Gerner wrote:There were this announcement http://cybwiz.blogspot.dk/2012/03/mola- ... r-and.html

Sasa Dejan, First... Did you see anything?
I am not sure what should we see ?

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 11 Jun 2012, 21:18

Gerner wrote:The pictured cabinets...
You mean this Mola-Mola stuff ?

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 12 Jun 2012, 08:10

Gerner wrote:MOLA-MOLA series leaflet http://www.mola-mola.nl/epk_files/molamolafolder.pdf
We haven't heard Mola-Mola in Muenchen. Somehow we missed this room. Therefore, no comment on sound ...

User avatar

PrekoBare
srebrni korisnik
srebrni korisnik
Posts: 538
Joined: 03 Dec 2008, 20:39

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by PrekoBare » 13 Jun 2012, 19:30

Gerner wrote: Looking at this fact, the newest D Class faces a very very hard competition. Indeed I would say, they totally lose the race. Unfair comparo? Not really, as the whole life time costs always should be considered.

To put it simple: The economical hifi lover would always consider to buy slightly used gear and be more happy about his buy, than having invested in the latest brand new *revolution*.

:sign
$10K spent on Class D is $10K spent. We should be grateful to people who buy Class D because they finance progress with their own resources.

$10K spent on flavor of the day hi-end "analog" amp is $7K spent, 3K residual value. Vendors and distibution network should be grateful that such people exist. The rest of us can envy them on their good fortunes and blaming them for bringing too many crooks into our hobby.

$10K spent on well known model of conservative brand (McIntosh, AudiResearch) is $4K spent, $6K residual.
That's why doctors and lawyers buy such stuff - it pass the logic test.


There will always be people willing to buy your conservative built amp, it is questionable if you could find anyone buy your
three generations old Class D, even if it was sota in its day.

The fiercest competition to Class D is not from analog camp but from better CLASS D.


That's the problem with all immature technologies, be it laptops, Digital cameras, home theater processors or digital phones.
"Najbolje je neprijatelj dobrog"

Volter

User avatar

PrekoBare
srebrni korisnik
srebrni korisnik
Posts: 538
Joined: 03 Dec 2008, 20:39

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by PrekoBare » 13 Jun 2012, 22:53

Gerner wrote: What digital camera has ever been close to diapositive film projection. None... absolutely none of them.
A friend of mine told me that D800 is the ticket for the first time. Perhaps not exactly comparable to Kodachrome 25 but comparable to Velvia and Ectachrome 100. For what it is, it is not even expensive.

Mama took our Kodachrome away, now we have to buy new Nikon camera.
"Najbolje je neprijatelj dobrog"

Volter

User avatar

prophet
redovni korisnik
redovni korisnik
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 13:00

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by prophet » 14 Jun 2012, 09:03

Congratulations :!:

User avatar

prophet
redovni korisnik
redovni korisnik
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 13:00

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by prophet » 15 Jun 2012, 09:55

Gerner wrote:The fulliest presentation of D-Premier I know of http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/devialet2/1.html
I like this feature:

"Pressing the bass button while in phono mode selects the RIAA curve. Currently available are 1953 and 1976. Custom settings can be ordered. With everything connected we repeated the noise test. Imagine a phono setup that is dead quiet and then even more dead. Eerie!"

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 15 Jun 2012, 12:32

Devialet is a small class A amp which then has as a current amplifier at the output a class D amp. Actually, it is not a new idea except maybe that both amps are now in one enclosure.

I heard it several times with different speakers (Wilson Audio, Martin Logan, Focals, . .. ) and I never liked it very much.

User avatar

DejanM
Audio Expert
Audio Expert
Posts: 4686
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 13:14

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by DejanM » 15 Jun 2012, 13:01

Gerner wrote:This is the point. Nice to have response from someone that really heard the stuff.

But a nice versatile device it is.
It is versatile, it is compact, it has a lot of power ... but the sound is average (my opinion). For that kind of money there are out there much better amps.

User avatar

prophet
redovni korisnik
redovni korisnik
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 13:00

Re: High End D-Class. Live or let die?

Post by prophet » 15 Jun 2012, 13:34

Gerner wrote:The nice Baby sports only nice things, it seems.

You have this machine prophet? Or did you hear it somewhere? BM had some session demoing it :)
No and no and I've missed demo session :oops:

Post Reply